Episode One: Eric Owen, Director of “Thirst”
In 2021, 2perf had the opportunity to help Eric Owen make his first feature film — a horror-thriller titled “Thirst.”
Here’s the synopsis:“Insomnia spreads in a small town, causing fear and panic. As the situation becomes dire, two couples find salvation on an abandoned ranch, but as nefarious characters descend upon the land, claiming it as their own, and chaos ensues.”
Not only was it a blast to work on this indie feature, but it’s been fun watching the saga of its success unfold. Thirst has now been picked up by Gravitas Ventures for distribution in the US and Canada and is available to stream on Amazon Prime Video and Apple TV!
Please enjoy episode one of the What’s Your Story Podcast hosted by Ben Root: “Eric Owen, Director of Thirst".
(Please scroll down for the full trasncript).
Podcast Transcript:
What's Your Story Podcast Ep 1 - Eric Owen
Ben
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the, what's your story podcast, the podcast where we talk about making movies. I'm your host, Ben Root founder of two perf productions. We're here in the studio talking to Eric Owen today, Eric is a drummer in a band called Black Pistol Fire. They make pretty awesome music and he decided he wants to make movies. So he made his first feature. We got to help him make that feature. That movie is called Thirst and Thirst is a horror thriller shot on
location here in Austin. It's a really fun, creepy scary movie. We had a ton of fun helping Eric make it and it actually got picked up for distribution. So it is available to go stream right now on Amazon Prime video and on Apple TV. So without further ado, let's talk to Eric Owen about his movie Thirst. What's up, Eric? How you doing? Thanks for coming on the show. How you feeling?
Eric
It is my absolute pleasure. I feel great. I feel great. Life's good.
Ben
What you been working on lately?
Eric
Oh, man. Just writing, writing, writing. That's that's kind of, I'm right in the middle of probably my favorite script I've ever written.
Ben
Ok. Can you give us any sneak peeks or is it all under lock?
Eric
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's all good. Seven. Since Thirst, since the movie that we, we made together, I've, I've written a couple of scripts and one that I think is going to be the next one that gets made. Hopefully the end of this year, that one's called Collapse. But the one that I'm currently working on is called Outpost. And in, in Canada specifically, I think they might have in, in Minnesota too. There's these, back country fishing camps, they're called like Out Outposts.
And they, they're only accessible by seaplane. Like they're so deep in the woods, there's no road to get there and they're kind of by themselves. So basically, it's seven friends meeting up and there's a lot of tension and issues within the group and then people will start showing up dead and, it becomes a whodunit slash survival slasher type film. Like, it's like Friday the 13th, Meets Knives Out. Ok.
Ben
Nice. It kind of makes me think of that movie. Bodies, Bodies Bodies too.
Eric
Did you watch that? I haven't watched that yet. I'm going to because I love, you know, I love anything. A 24 does. and it did look funny that Pete David kind of annoys me, but that's part of the charm. No, I know. And I, I'm sure he is funny. But, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch that for sure. Cool. Cool. So, yeah, I'm gonna watch that tonight actually. Now that you've reminded me, I need to watch that tonight. It's really funny.
Ben
It's worth a watch. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I mean, you know, this podcast is all about people's stories and, you know, what I really want to know is what's your story? So, how did you end up here?
Eric, Ben
How did you end up filmmaking, man?
Eric
I've always, throughout my life, I always had this weird imagination and I, I tell, I tell my now wife that and my sisters that I remember being like five years old and just like in the middle of the night, like, just like I would, I would sit up because I'd had this thought that like, oh, what if I'm not real? What if I'm just like, what if my life is looking through like a video of someone's life?
Like this is what I'm seeing is not what really is life and then it's actually a video that someone's watching in some distant planet or something. It's just weird stuff like that and it would freak me out. It would keep me up all night. I was like a five year old and you might have figured something out. Maybe it, it's basically like the matrix kind of, I'm not saying I created the matrix.
I definitely did not. But, No, I'd always, I always have strange thoughts like that. And then I started writing short stories when I was a teenager. not really having a particular point of view or anything like that. Just, I like the idea of writing a story and it was mainly plot focus but character as well. And then probably around when I was, I think, when I first moved to Austin, when I was 25 I started writing a novel.
And I remember thinking like, oh, I'm gonna write and finish this novel. It was about a, it was kind of about a band and then about a group of friends meeting up at a music festival. I went to a lot of like hippie jam band festivals back then. And so I tried writing this novel, I got like three quarters of the way through. And then I remember like I stopped and then I went back like six months later and read it and it was awful.
It was just horrible. Like, no one's gonna read this. And so I took a couple of years off writing and then maybe around 2016, I had this idea for a TV show. So I thought, oh, I might as well start try to, why not try to write it. So I just wrote this story and then I realized like, oh, you have to write an actual screenplay. So I started reading screenplays around 2016 and then started writing with the intention.
I never had the intention of until, you know, 23 years ago of, of, of directing. It was always about writing for me writing stories, having interesting characters a lot. I'm a big fan of plot and twists and, and things like that. So around 2016 I started writing a television show, wrote a pilot episode, 10 episodes, story arc, essentially not for one season and it's cool, it's not bad, but, you know, it's never gonna get made.
And then from there, I did another one of those and then I started writing features thinking that, oh, this is something that it's as an unknown writer is possible to get made. So I started writing the first couple of scripts I write had just probably enormous budgets like one that would cost $30 million which that's just not gonna happen. So after maybe the fourth or fifth feat feature I wrote, I decided, ok, now I'm only gonna write scripts that I could maybe make.
So I started going for scripts with budget under 250,000, which, you know, I don't have, but like, that's something that's potentially tangible. And then with you, when we met after writing those scripts, also realizing, oh, it's hard to sell a script just to like sell a script. So I was like, might as well, why not make it, you know? And so I started studying.
you know, I've always watched tons of movies and started paying attention more to the direction of things. And then, so you and I, we worked on a short that I wrote and directed and it was cool. I look back on it and I'm like, oh, the story is a little convoluted but, you know, first one and then our good friend Josh, who, partnered up with me and Laurie, we both know we did another short that we'll probably never see the light of day.
And then I decided, you know what, let's let's focus and let's get a feature done. So I for a micro budget, like minimal. and I wrote a couple, I wrote one that was cool that was gonna be shot up, kind of shot up in Canada like a cabin scenario, not a horror. This one was just a straight drama. But then people ask me why horror thriller? a lot of the time and I love a, I love a lot of like horror thriller.
There's nothing like gory. That's not really my scene. But there's just a market for that for independent horror and thriller where if you write an independent drama, there's just, unless you have famous people in it or it's one of the top handful of films that come out of festivals, it's, it's gonna be hard to get people to see that to sell it or to get people to see it.
So there just is a kind of bigger market for horror thrillers. So I kind of the first two scripts I wrote, I'm kind of, I'm just talking here. the first two scripts I wrote with the intention of shooting one. Was that any drama I said was set up in Canada? Then another kind of like psychological drama set here in Austin that all took place in like the course of a couple of hours and they're both good, but they weren't quite the one.
I, I sent them to people and people like them. But then I've had the idea for Thirst. I was actually on tour in 2021. We had just played my band, Black Castle Fire had just played Lol Plu for the second time. And at this point in our career, I'm fortunate in that we, we have a crew with us. We have a couple of guys that can help set up, tear down, kind of do a lot of stuff. So we're afforded a little bit of time beforehand. Then we a little more than we would have years ago.
So I remember one day I was in Minneapolis. I have, I had this idea for thirst in my head. But then I just, it just all came to me and I went down to the river with my yellow legal pad and just start jotting stuff down just like idea, idea, idea. And the way I write is for a movie. I usually have an idea that, like, floats around in my head for, I could be anywhere from like a couple days to like weeks or months.
Eric, Ben
And then finally when, like, they kind of start piecing together my brain, I just get out the yellow legal pad and just scribble a yellow legal pad, not a white, a white, it's got to be yellow, man.
Eric
Those lawyers know what they're doing. Why do you think they're using?
Ben
What about, what about like a a composition book?
Eric
I have my, my, my inlaw has got me a lovely like moles skin. you know, like journal type book a couple of years ago and I, I ran out of yellow legal pads for this latest script I'm writing on. So I had, I had to put it in there. It felt strange because you know what? It's such a nice looking book that I feel guilty just scribbling in it and just nonsense. I, my writing is chicken scratch. That's why the yellow legal pad, you know, it's a bad page, you tear it out.
Ben
So when they recycling. Yeah. Right.
Eric, Ben
So when the Hollywood executives are looking at your script and you know, this last part I'm not sure about, you're like, that's the mo skin part, that's exactly, it's gonna mess with the writing, it's gonna mess with the writing. So find your find your, medium is what you're telling your yellow and your utensil, you know, which is a black pen.
Eric
It's any kind of pen I've written with red. and it's a variety of pens, like you would think. Oh, I bet you have a, a bunch of nice pens and I think I've been given nice pens for, like Christmas or birthday or something and I always lose them. I'm, I'm, I'm kind of a mess as far as like losing things and just clumsiness.
So again, going in the band, we're on tour often. We're in hotel rooms. I always snag a hotel room pen, whether it's a nice hotel or it's like, you know, just your standard Holiday Inn or something like that. I always snag the pen because you never know when you're gonna need it.
Ben
Yeah, you gotta take the pen. Yeah.
Eric
So my backpack, I go through TS A and there's like 35 pens in my backpack and like occasionally one of them runs and it's a disaster.
Eric, Ben
So, yeah, it runs.
Ben
But it writes a script. I hopefully that'd be great.
Eric
It just like just happens. What's the word I'm looking for or not organically? But I didn't even write proxy by proxy. That'd be great. Yeah.
Ben
So, so you, you wrote the idea For Thirst? You were on tour and I just happened after that.
Eric
I just sat by the river. that day, I'll never forget. And I just, again, it wasn't the whole, so the way I do it, I, I write, I had the idea in my head and then I, I go and just like jot down ideas and I kind of try to do it in chronologically. So it's almost like the, the story arc. So based on writing the story and I, I have the car, I have the characters, I try to get them first.
Like hear the characters here are some of their traits here, their relationships and that can always change, it can always change. It can change from the characters to the story and then the story to the actual script, it can all change. But that's the kind of order I like to do. And then it's just frantic and it's just, it's a stream of consciousness, consciousness almost and that sometimes I read it back.
I'm like, what does this mean? You know, I'm just going and not stopping. And that takes anywhere from that whole process is anywhere from a couple of days to like, even like a week, a week or two of just like going nuts and just writing everything and then it's going back with thirst. But that first, so that first day with Thirst, I had, I was really stoked on it.
I had like a pretty good blueprint. I knew the beginning, middle and end. I didn't like piece everything in between. I had the characters, the beginning the middle and end. And I remember I told our guitar tech at the time. I went back and I told him, like, dude, I just had this, I'm like, pretty stoked. I got this really cool idea and I kind of started writing this idea for this new movie, like script.
He, he knew I was writing scripts and working on scripts. And I told him that and he's like, dude, I'd watched that and I was like, OK, that's a good sign. The first person I told was kind of excited about this idea. So then, yeah. And then, so again, looking back at the yellow pad, legal legal pad and I try to do it chronologically, but then I'll do all these arrows to like make the, to make it, make sense and then write something in the margin and it's kind of a disaster.
So after it's all done, I take a day to like, look, get away from it and then piece it together. It's like a puzzle, like trying to like make it all work into like a cohesive story. And then I do that and then I will start writing on the, start working on the first draft of the script after that. And so with Thirst, the one that we produced and made together, I, I got home from that tour and, you know, after it was a short tour, it wasn't that bad.
But I was, I'm usually pretty tired after those. I need like a day or two to like decompress. But I think it's pretty soon after that, I started writing the script and I did, you know, one draft and then the second draft probably before I showed anyone, I think I sent it to Josh first. and then I have a couple of other friends that I let read and kind of give notes and then I got it to a pretty good place I was happy with.
And yeah, then we started assembling the crew and then put out a casting call and did casting, which isn't always an interesting. I'd never done that before. Like full on casting, like have auditions and everything. That was interesting. Yeah.
Ben
Yeah. What were some of the highlights from casting?
Eric
It's always good to when you, well, I knew I knew Laurie was going to be the lead because Laurie Laurie Kavi, a friend of ours love Laurie. She'd been in the shorts. Shout out, shout out to Laurie. Laurie's great girl. She's at my wedding, Laurie. I knew it was gonna be her and then just, it's always fun when you, when you have an idea what someone looks like for the character in your head and then if they either are exactly that or if they're totally not what it is, that's always, oh, it's
just always interesting. Like, see who ends up being this thing that you imagine in your head or this person you imagine in your head. And there are some good surprises I really enjoyed. Some of the chemistry I remember specifically the chemistry between Brian and Laurie. I knew at that point, I thought Brian was going to be the lead. I was pretty sure, but I had him read with Laurie and they knew each other we friends, which is great.
Brian Vila Villalobos. shout out to Brian. Brian when they read together out there might want to compress that. when they read together and seeing like they had like in such a sterile place, you know, it was like an office, basically a conference room for them to have like some chemistry was very nice. And then, with Stephanie Slayton and Federica Randall, playing the kind of two main supporting characters when they read together and they had some really good chemistry that,
that and it just feels good when you, when you see like, oh, those were the main four characters and like they were gonna have some chemistry that was exciting. And then, you know, like anything, I'd never done a proper audition. So there's times that it was awkward, you know, where you have a handful of people reading and they read a line and, you know,
oh, they like, they're like, they're not right. But then, you know, they go do the next couple of pages and it's, it's kind of hard, you know, you just say thank you very much.
Ben
Yeah.
Eric
And like, man, I respect the hell out of anyone that's putting themselves out there. It's such a hard thing to do. I can't imagine. Like, I don't know if I could do it. So then I respect them but it's, it's times it's, I don't know, I just never dealt with that before. Like, right away, like, oh, this is not the right person.
Ben
We might have to pivot kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I totally feel that and it's true. I mean, it takes a lot of guts to come out and do an audition, you know, so it's hard.
Eric
It's awkward. But yeah, when someone does it, when they nail it, it's amazing. And but yeah, there's times where it's a little tough.
Ben
Yeah. So, so moving into production, I mean, that was so Thirst was tuf first feature as well. So it was a, it's always, will be a special experience that lives, you know, in my mind is a beautiful moment. And I thought, yeah, beautiful, stressful moment, you know, I thought the production was went remarkably smooth for, for being kind of a low budget indie film and watching the trailer.
I was incredibly excited. I mean, it looks, looks amazing. Josh Taylor did an amazing job, the DP and it sounds incredible. I mean, you know, it sounds like a Hollywood movie.
Eric
So, yeah, that was a big thing was, you know, it's, it's a micro budget movie. It's, it's, it's pretty, pretty minimal. So I'm, I'm, I'm very appreciative of people, you know, people came in and got less than the rate they would for a lot of other things. and I'm very appreciative but everyone that came aboard to work technical, the technical aspects, sound, you know, like, grip Savvy and, and, and anyone that came on to work in the technical aspect really are professionals and
they, and they knew what they were doing and they did a great job, you know, Dave, who did did location sound was great and who did the sound design in the final mix commented about how great the location sound was. There wasn't all kinds of like crazy static or feedback or, and like the levels were fairly good. So yeah, when just something's well done like that, it helped.
The first thing after casting was done was finding locations. There's not many locations in Thirst. My house being the main character's house was probably where more than half of the movie takes place, which was great and that was easy. But there are several other locations. The big, the biggest one being the pond ranch location, which takes place at the end of the film.
And that was tricky because I had a vision of what it looked like in my head when I wrote, when I wrote the script, you know, like a shitty little kind of farm pond surrounded by maybe a couple of trees and just like a big field of the mosquitoes. Love. Yeah. Ideally, ideally, yeah, this like unappealing water is what I wanted.
Eric, Ben
Like, oh, like, yeah, it's water bog dare I say not as boggy because boggy implies a lot of weeds and like vegetation. I was thinking a little more haunted lake.
Eric
No, like pond, like nothing, almost like a puddle, almost like a puddle is what I wanted. And so trying to find that on, you know, essentially Air BNB was tricky and there's a lot of places that, that look good. But then I, I remember we got there and it's like, oh, it kind of looks nice, you know, and it looks like somewhere they'd be like inviting to go to and I just didn't have the right, the right setting.
So then got to this one place that had a similar situation where the initial place that they showed on the, on the website, it was just too nice. And I was like, oh, I kind of told them that I was looking for something else like, oh, we have like the pond on the drive in. And then so Josh actually came with me and we drove out, I'm like, oh my God, this is exactly what I envisioned in my head and shout out to Bonnie and Steve who it was their property and I could, you couldn't have asked for
anyone to be more perfect for that. Not only were they willing to let a crew of people film on their property? They were excited about it and we got to use their guest house as staging and hair and makeup for those two days that were out there. That was also, that was the most stressful day and that we were getting, I think it's 20 minutes there. So that's like 10 minutes a day in indie film to get that much.
Footage is very tricky as you know, that's a lot. It was a lot. So those are my two most stressful days. But yeah, there was that and I knew the other two loca two house locations were gonna be friends of mine and then you were courteous enough to let us use your place for 11 little shot.
Eric, Ben
And then that's my fault.
Eric
Cut that cut, that cut that. There we go. Yeah, than finding a grocery store and then you need a place to look like a doctor's office. It's, it's it's all good. You can take a pause. Keep this in the podcast, man. People love this kind of stuff. They were behind the scenes.
Eric, Ben
They were, they were provocative, what's going on, put your pants on.
Ben
Then I can't do that.
Eric
I can't promise fair enough. Yeah, you got nice legs. It's ok. What are we talking about?
Ben
We're talking about or something.
Eric
So you're just getting those last few ones and, and then a convenience store that was gonna let us shoot for one scene. It was all something that on my next film I would like. Well, the next film literally has only one location. It's a house, it all takes place there. So that's great. But going forward if I ever did something like that again, I would love to have someone else help with that.
It was just a lot for me to do all that stuff. And then, yeah, so that was, that was, that was the location stuff. And then it became scheduling which also is very difficult, especially it's easy if you have the next film, I, I'm doing Collapse is one location. There's nine characters and they're pretty much, I'm sorry. It's ok.
Eric, Ben
Yeah, we'll take a pause, take a pause, focus, do not disturb.
Ben
I should do it.
Eric
I'm sorry about that. You should be, be how dare you What was I talking about?
Ben
You were saying?
Eric, Ben
So on this next one, the 99 Toronto Maple Leafs and how they didn't win the Stanley Cup.
Ben
You still, are you still thinking about that? Yeah.
Eric
Yeah, they, they didn't quite have it.
Ben
So, yeah. No. So on this, on this next film, Collapse you were saying?
Eric
Oh yeah, it'll be scheduling would theoretically be much simpler in that, that film all takes place pretty much in real time. You know, the movie will be an hour and a half and, but it like the on the screen, like everything's happening in the film takes place over the course of about two hours. So as far as hair and makeup and who's there and pretty much most characters are in it most of the time in one location.
So scheduling will be a lot easier. Whereas thirst there is people that were only available, certain days there was different locations, different scenes with different people and trying to configure all that plus outside versus inside and trying to make it so that my house was the, the fail safe that if we had to shoot something, we could shoot it at my house if we like it was a weather day or, you know, one of the someone else, some other location dropped out.
We could always do that, but I was hoping that we could just get everything knocked out and then just be at my house for the last, I guess it was a week or so. And we did, but man, it was, it was very, I loved it and I really enjoyed doing it, but it was a very stressful three weeks for me, a very stressful for there's the production aspect with, with the scheduling and you said it did go very in so many ways.
Like, we didn't have many technical issues. Most people showed up, I think for the most part, everyone showed up on time, kind of ready to work. There was anything like that, whether we only had that one that we had that one day that messed us up.
Ben
Yeah. The freezes in Texas, which are now common.
Eric
Yeah. That's a, that's a nasty freeze too. It's nice and everything. So, we essentially lost the day. And we, and I remember we made that up like all the stuff that we were supposed to shoot in that day. We kind of Josh and I like in the schedule. I think you two configure it to fit in our remaining days somehow, which is great. So, yeah, we lost a full day basically. Yeah.
Ben
And, and I mean, we shot a feature in 14 days.
Eric
I think it was like of actual production. I think it was 13, 13 days.
Ben
We shot a feature. So shout out to the Indie crew that made this happen. Yeah, everyone involved.
Eric
Yeah, it was, it was incredible. Everyone worked really hard. It was going back to the stress of it is it had been one thing to direct and then one thing to produce, I think, for me, I think next, I've said this is that next time I wouldn't want to do, I was, I do always want to direct but like to produce by my, like not by myself because I had you as well.
Eric, Ben
But like to be the one making, like, all, like the production decisions, like final thing and especially preproce because you were heavily, I mean, you did most of the pre-production.
Eric
So, yeah, it was, it was too much.
Eric, Ben
and I, I could, but it was just too much on my, like, yeah, someone that has someone, yeah, like, come on board or, like you say, yeah, pre-production, preproduction and to be able to do all that stuff and to have like an ad.
Ben
Yeah.
Eric
Well, you, you played ad basically, you were the ad. You're a great ad. Thank you. Great ad then route.
Eric, Ben
But then the other thing I was going to put that on my, I mean, you could.
Eric
Why not?
Ben
Yeah, why not? Yeah.
Eric
Honestly, you probably do pretty well on that.
Eric, Ben
Yeah, I like a for sure if you want like, I don't know, like if you want to like put the year ad on the film, I mean, you were Yeah.
Ben
Yeah. Fair. I mean, I guess, you know, producer ad and you know, so that a good gig.
Eric
But the other thing I was gonna say that was very stressful for me that directing, you need a lot of time. We did like kind of 10, 11 hour days and then, you know, you need time either before, both before and after to like review the scenes for the next day. Like what are we doing? Like, what are the characters?
What's the motivation, what are the shots we're doing in addition to that for me, when we were shooting at my house, especially I was the janitor, you know, because we'd finish shooting for the day and I have a small house. It's not very big and, you know, you can't help it.
Eric, Ben
Like everyone was very clean but 10 to 12 people being in that small house at the end of the day, no matter what, it's especially when you have to do a shot and it's like I'm gonna put my water bottle down so I can run to the scene.
Ben
You know what I mean? Not like deliberately littering the space but no, no.
Eric
And everyone was very good and, and very respectful but just it just when you have that many people in again in a small house, it's going to get dirty, of course. So then I was the janitor for like an hour or two every day. So it was, it was wild.
Ben
But God bless your now wife for putting up with that. She was lovely.
Eric
She so she did not stay in the house. When we were shooting, she went and stayed with our good friends, Katie Kelsey shouts Katie Kelsey who their house was also in the movie for a scene and their car, they accidentally, they didn't mean to, but they accidentally drove by in a scene and they made it, they made it in the film, they call the car. The, the Green Queen is what they call their car. The Green Queen is in the movie.
Ben
Yeah. So, so that's production. Yeah, that's production. So now you've edited the film, you've color graded it. I assume you've done the sound mix. You have a final cut.
Eric
I will say one thing that people, my friend Greg asked me what I, one thing I learned about when I, when I was shooting and here's a big tip to filmmakers always grab every single day for, for every location, grab b roll no matter what, we end up having enough. But there's a couple of times, I'm like, oh man, we need a transition piece here and there's a couple of scenes where we didn't have something from that.
So luckily we had something from a different scene that you couldn't tell and it totally worked and actually ended up being better, but always grab b roll from every scene even. It's just like one shot and you can think of that stuff on the, you probably know that like, and you can think of stuff, great advice. You can think of stuff on the spot and that's always good to do. I was also fortunate in that the main, you know, the main character's house was, was my house.
So then Josh and I came over like after like, it was all done and just having the ideas for, bro, bro is great too because it's one thing just like, oh, it's at a house. Well, here's the house. That's good. But like you can make it more interesting, you know, like you can have it be a zoom shot or you can have a very specific angle of the house or it can be, you know, also specific times. So, yeah, bro, bro, bro.
Ben
Nice. Yeah, I mean, it's like you're already set up, you're paying for the crew for the day.
Eric
So you might as well get as much as you can like 10 minutes, like even just like 10 minutes to be roll shots, you know. if you can and like try try to budget your time for that, I think really, really help because on, on a, in a script, I remember reading the script. I'm like, you don't think of that like, oh this scene goes to that scene and it's totally fine, but then you watch the cut and it's like,
oh, that's so abrupt. We need something to break that up. So nice, bro. And like interesting, bro, definitely helps too, whether it be just beautiful or weird or symbolic.
Ben
Well, in the trailer, there's that one shot of with the sun coming through the dust, you know, I love that shot.
Eric
That was deliberate. My house there had always has the dust like we get such bright sunlight around dust because the the sun just like beams into our house and you can always see the dust and it's, it's pretty wild. We, yeah, we made a little more than we, like, got a little bit more dust and kind of flew. It, flipped it into the air, you know, we kind of intensified it a bit. but yeah, that was a shot we were really happy with. yeah, that Josh and I did on, on, like after the fact.
Ben
Yeah, yeah, that was, that stood out to me. That was a cool, cool shot. And you know, Josh did such a good job too with such minimal lighting and things like that using.
Eric
I remember we talked about it just using, you provide a bunch of lights and Josh, I think I had like one or two lights, maybe, maybe not. But we're going to use a lot of lamps and things like that. A lot of natural light. So, yeah, you know, it looks incredible. It looks exactly how I would have wanted it to look. Now I'll say something about the editing and that the editing I've heard, I'm so glad if you heard other directors in podcast.
Like Barry Jenkins said this and I, I remember like the Always Sunny guys listen in their podcast. They said it too. Whenever a director, a director, especially the first time one gets into an editing room, they always like have the first cut and then they're like, holy shit. Like we don't have it like we're fucked basically. And I remember the first time I watched the first kind, I'm like, I'm like, oh my God, what is this?
And that's just apparently the way everyone feels and then you realize like, OK, no, like that's when the work starts. One that we'll do that. We'll cut that trim that by like two seconds. Put the B roll in there. Let's use an alternate take of that, you know, use the, use the overhead shot in that one as opposed to the wide.
Eric, Ben
And it's just a process, it's gonna, it takes a long time to get there totally.
Ben
And, and that's, you know, they call it a rough cut for a reason because it's rough and it feels rough to watch it, it feels rough.
Eric
You don't feel confident at all.
Eric, Ben
I remember watching it and there's no, there's no music as well and the sound design makes it look better. You know, it's like it really does, it all, it all contributes.
Eric
especially if you have a scene that's supposed to be kind of creepy or eerie or intense. any kind of sound design or music, musical score definitely just makes that pop so much more and it's sometimes harder to feel without that or like you're expecting to feel that way, but then you don't, when you're watching it without those elements.
And especially, it's like, also if it's not a proper mix. So, the dialogue mix which happens later. So someone's yelling but they're kind of quiet in the mix. It just doesn't have that same effect. And you're watching, you're like, why is this not hitting? Like it should.
Ben
Yeah, totally. And you know what, it's something on the more like commercial world side that I learned is that, you know, never send the client a rough cut because they, they, they're always gonna say, oh, I just want to see what you have, you know, just like, let's see what you have. And, you know, I, and I learned the hard way. Don't send them a rough cut and don't send them anything without color because especially if they are talking on camera because if they see themselves with
gray skin tones, they'll flip a biscuit, they do not like that and they think, you know, this whole project, you know, so it's almost like you, you want to send them a final cut that you call a rough cut.
Eric
Yeah, exactly. Something that's 95% there.
Ben
If not more. So. No, that's, that's, that's super interesting. So, so you moved into, into, you move past Post and so now, now what's going on with, with earth.
Eric
So, so there's this other, you know, there's the battle of getting it made. The, there's, there's the pre there's the being in the middle of it shooting it, which is production just getting through, that's huge. Getting the final product. It's like, ok, it's all done. And then you think, well, now it's time to like, just get it out in the world, put it on youtube, put it on youtube.
I mean, you could, but here's the thing. it's, it is also a very long and lengthy process. I've got, it takes a while because it, especially being an unknown filmmaker to get anyone to respond and watch the movie is difficult. You know, that takes research, you have to find people and like, OK, who's selling films, who like, you have to spend your time to like, compile a big list and then you send your film to all these people with a little note and then you'll get responses from, you
know, 5% of them at the most tops, how many of them will end up watching the whole whole movie? Probably half of them, probably half of them start it and, you know, maybe 1% total of the people that, you know, starting 5% 1% of those people actually watch the movie.
And ultimately, it's not gonna be for everyone. So then it's just, and, and it just takes the entertainment business, whether it's music. I know this and like now I'm learning it in film. It just takes forever to get anything done.
Eric, Ben
For someone to watch, something takes a long time and then for someone to finally sign on and say yes, let's do this and then have contracts done and then for you to get them, you know, looked over by a lawyer and it just, it just takes a long time and money and a lot of times we don't have as creatives, you know.
Eric
Definitely, definitely. So, with thirst, I was able to, it took a while, we got a, a good North American sales rep, which I'm really happy about. And now I've just started, I didn't think of and then I ended up getting married in the fall. So that took a lot of time very much. It was lovely. Shout out to my lovely wife, Amanda Pennington, Amanda Pennington.
Oh And oh, even though she hasn't changed her name, yeah, so it, that finally got taken care of and I've just now started which I don't know why I didn't do this earlier. reaching out to international sales agents because usually they don't, they, they don't do both. So I'm doing the same thing again. That's, you know, you send out however many emails with like the trailer and like the actual link to the film with saying if you want to watch, you know, password and you get responses
from 5% of people and then it's just taking time for people to watch it and then Thirst. It's a matter of which film festival it we'll get into. you know, there's a handful of ones in the spring that we're hoping to get into either way it will get sold. It'll be, it'll stream online, not online, it'll stream like, you know, in one of the streaming services for sure.
But it just matter, it, it depends on, there's a whole hierarchy, I'm sure, you know, I'm not gonna like name any names of streamers, but there's a big hierarchy as far as well. You know, some pay more don't have as many subscribers and are more niche and then some don't pay as much. But, you know, it's like a, they cast a wide net as far as who could potentially watch.
So yeah, just finding the right distributor to get it to them. And it just again, it just takes time, man and we'll see which festival line. It winds up at, it'll wind up at one of them and you know, some preferable to others and whatever happens happens, we'll see. It's just, it just takes a long time. I said this to, to a man and my wife earlier this year.
It was like, I, I just wanted to be out in the world at this point, you know, because if we finished post, it was fully done last summer. So then after summer, I remember I, I had a long tour with my band Black with The Fire. And even on that, I was kind of sending, I was that's when I started the process of sending the sales agents. and it wasn't until later in the fall that finally, you know, got one and then now we're submitting the festivals and then so yeah, I just, it, it's been a while and
I want it to be out in the world, but, you know, I also don't want to throw it up up there for the sake of throwing it up for like my impatience. I'd rather, you know, land somewhere good and do something and you know, you obviously I want, I would like it to make some money. You know, that's part of it too. Can't lie. Yeah, of course.
Eric, Ben
You wanna, you wanna be able to at least pay yourself back for, oh yeah, for the film because I, I did fund it myself, which I won't do again, but it was it had to be done, right? Like no one, no one was gonna give me money to make a movie.
Ben
Yeah. So, I mean, and part of the reason why I wanted to talk to you is because there's a lot of people that are probably like, you know, listening to this thinking I want to make my first film. How do I do that? I wanna, I want my film to be distributed. I want, I want to get a crew together.
I didn't go to film school. I don't know anyone in film, you know, I mean, so you started, you started, but you had tons of success in music, which is amazing. And then you said, you know what I want to make movies. So, how the hell did you do that?
Eric
So, yeah, it started with, with the, with the writing and writing the scripts. And then when I finally wanted to, like, let's make something and you can't just start and be like, I'm gonna make a feature because if you've never done it before, you're not gonna have, if I, if I skipped the, what was it even called sibling rivalry, the short that we did together, if I skipped that and the subsequent one that, Josh and I and Laurie did, which will never get released.
But if I skipped those steps, I would have, I would have missed out on. So I would have not had as much knowledge and been so unprepared for the future. So I think right off the bat, you have to write something. I mean, it depends. I, I don't know how to be a director. That's just a director. I don't know that I only ended up being like a writer director, so I don't know, I wouldn't know about how to find a script to work with. So, I'm not the right person to ask for that.
But as far as, I mean, if you have a friend that may be the way to go, but for a writer director, start with a short, you can start with, a short short, it can be five minutes. make something cool. I, the, the one thing I think that you need, you need, obviously a camera, you could do it on an iphone just to like, get practice. The one thing that you will need is the biggest thing is sound, having good sound and that's tricky.
Eric, Ben
That's where you will, I think always have to hire someone because if a, if a even a short has bad sound, it, it seems amateur sound guys across America mouths are watering now.
Ben
I mean, it's true. No, it's so true.
Eric
And that's why they are like, typically the most expensive part of a crew.
Ben
They just are. Have you heard the thing about how distributors will go to a film festival and just put their ear in a theater and, and listen, if the film sounds good, that's before they even walk in. I mean, it's, it's a myth. It's a myth. I've heard it, you know, I mean, I believe it. I've heard that, you know, people will go in to film festivals and just listen. Does this film even sound good before it's even worth walking in to, to see it?
Eric
Yeah, because, and if you don't have a good sound person. Yeah, you, you, you're done because you can, you can only fix, you can fix some visual stuff and post a little bit. I find, I think fixing sound is a lot trickier. Obviously now there's like, you know, like a disaster like happens on the camera. Then obviously you can't fix that. So I'd say, yeah, start with a, you know, if you want to do a longer short, you can do that but make write something that you can shoot with you and your
friends, the less people the better. If you, ideally you have like a decent camera, it doesn't have to be an Alexa or anything like that. But just if you want to shoot an iphone, shoot it on an iphone and then you kind of have to learn. I, I don't know how to it but either find someone that knows how to edit or learn how to edit yourself. Did you? No, no.
Jacob Butter or I, I probably just butch his last name. I'm sorry. Jacob Jake is a good dude though. He's out, he's out in L A. did a great job. I'm really, really excited with how he edited it. So yeah, find someone that can edit it for you and put, put something together, maybe even do it less than 10, maybe do like a three minute short and then just kind of like keep going and then get to the point if you get to the point where you think you're doing good with that, try to do something that's
a little more cinematic, you know, maybe do something that's 10 minutes. Or 15 minutes, 10 minutes is probably good enough. Write something that's interesting to you and you think other people might find interesting, hire a little cast. Ideally, at that point, it'd be better to get someone that's an actor and not just your friends. I mean, it could be your friends too, but backstage is a great resource for posting jobs for actors and for talent.
And then in Texas there's the, what's it called Texas film Commission? There it is. Thank you. They, they were great and did a posting about thirst and I think I got a handful of submissions from there. I think some people I I chose from there.
Eric, Ben
And yeah, then again, the biggest thing you have to have sound no matter what and find a production company that supports indie filmmaking.
Eric
Well, when you get to your future, absolutely. You need to partner up. Yeah, finding, finding someone because eventually you can't, you know, early on do it all yourself and then you get to the point where like you want to get bigger, you can't do it yourself. So, yeah, find a company, like there's tons of them in the town you live in, you know, in Austin, there's two perf yeah, someone that believes in indie filmmaking and that's excited about what you're doing.
and always get feedback. So if you're writing a script, don't just go and do it, say like show to people friends and say like, oh, is this interesting? Like this is this ok? You know, that, that, that always helps. So then once you, if you want to make a feature, once you've done your short and the, the thing, the reason why I did two shorts and then it was like, I want to do a feature is that shorts, like when you get to the point where you have to be cinematic, it's gonna cost some money.
And the thing with shorts are, are that like, there's almost no way to get that money back. If you're lucky, you could break even. That's if you're really lucky, that's hard to do though. You have to basically go go viral on youtube for that to happen.
Eric, Ben
But you have to do it, you have to learn the craft that's like almost like you, if you haven't gone to film school, that's your film school is, is doing some short, even if you have gone to film school, they're just gonna tell you to go make some short films.
Eric
Yeah, I mean, that's just kind of how it is. And if you want to do a feature, then you just have to figure out a budget. You know, you have to write a script that you have to have a budget in mind and write a script for that minimal locations, ideally minimal people and shots that require minimal crew. So our crew, I'll get, I'll, I'll lay it out. It was a skeleton crew, but if you think about it was like pretty, pretty sizable, not bad.
So we had, you know, obviously myself directing Josh on camera, we had Nick Piper on first ac, so he was helping. And again, a lot of people wore a lot of, a lot of hats. That's the thing in indie film, especially like a shorter feature. You want people that are capable and willing to do to do more things than one.
Eric, Ben
Like, you know, we wear multiple hats, which I was so grateful that people were willing to do that for me, which is why scope is important too because if you, if you want, you know, just a first ac and not a 1st and 2nd, you can't be running through 25,000 batteries a day because you know what I mean?
Ben
So it's like scope is important too, you know.
Eric
Totally. So, so we had Jo Yeah, Josh and Nick on the cameras and then we had two per. So we had you and Carla kind of doing multiple things, you know, doing line producing, production, providing a lot of the equipment. And then also, like I said, with both of you, like first ad as well, which I hadn't planned for, you know, it just kind of happened that way.
Which thank God it did. That was something I didn't even cause, you know, on the shorts. It wasn't really necessary like it was like two people, but now we have multiple people, multiple crew and different scenes being shot.
Eric, Ben
It was very necessary to have a first day and especially doing a feature in 13 days would, you know, pretty incredible.
Eric
Yeah, totally necessary. And then you need again, great production, sound persons location mixer. We were fortunate that Dave who did our sound, he was mixing and he's also operating a boom as well. So he kind of did kind of double duty that we had savvy helping on the grip stuff, helping build some, some dollies and, and helping with lights and things like that. And then there was was it Tony, was his name? Tony came in for like a day or two and helped and then you were also great in
that, you know, because you have that background as well. If there was some electrical or like rigging things that need a little bit of help, you were, you know, you were great and gracious enough to like, help out on those too. So, yeah, assemble a crew. But again, you have to like, learn how much each of those jobs cost, you know, like, and if you're doing an indie film, like you kind of have to like realize like what the minimum that people will take is.
Ben
We have P A I can't remember.
Eric, Ben
Did we have any, we had a we had Sarah after doing oh yeah, Sarah after of course, can't forget Sarah crushed it.
Eric
Sarah Sarah is a great filmmaker, instrumental, instrumental and she's a great filmmaker herself. Sarah. So and then, oh and then, oh, how could I forget Sam Samantha? Of course, Samantha on hair makeup is also like I never thought about that on on the shorts. But hair makeup more so makeup than anything is so crucial. I mean, with a horror thriller, especially too when there's some blood and some special effects makeup.
Eric, Ben
that's a big part of it, but just general skin tones because you know, I've heard the makeup that you don't notice.
Eric
Yeah, the horror stories of people, especially colorists getting a, you know, footage and they're like, oh my God, this guy is just like blotchy all over the place and it takes them a long time to just correct the skin tones to make it not look noticeable.
And it takes away unfortunate time to be like creative with the coloring. So, anyway, that's, there's, there's, oh and so Samantha, I will also say talking about wearing multiple hats. She was hair and makeup and then she also did script supervision.
Ben
She did, she did. Yeah. And see, and that's why and the crew was so special because they really just truly wanted to see this film get made.
Eric, Ben
And then Samantha also a great a filmmaker on her own filmmaker, you know, direct and produces and shoots and does everything.
Eric
So, yeah, it's great to, to, I, I think I said this, I feel like that's the philosophy of the place we're in here. It's kind of like find cool people to make rad shit with, you know, totally or ra people to make cool shit with which we're gonna say, you know, you can go backwards. It's an anagram. It's not, but I like that.
Ben
Yeah. And you know what was amazing too is I always tell people when they're talking to me about making a film, I say, you know, you should have a production designer if you can afford it, you know, props and things like that, which you did an amazing job at doing and I could tell you were sweating, oh, that's another thing.
Eric
Yeah, I just, I, I think going forward, I, I would love that production design. And then just maybe just hiring another P A to do props. Like if you're having a lot of props, like if you don't have a lot of props, it's great. But yeah, we had, you know, there's some weapons and like certain things at certain locations and that's another thing for me to stress about every day.
Again, I had fun during the movie, I swear. No, it was, it was really great. It was really great, the production, but it was very stressful on the sec the night we shot our last, we did our last shoot. I was so relieved. I was so thankful and grateful and happy of the what we did. But also just like the stress just like lifted away from me, the fact that I was sure we got it, you know, I didn't, I didn't know for sure, but I was like, I think we have something to work with here.
And then it turns out a lot of, you know, there's a lot of scenes you haven't seen the film yet, but there's, there are some scenes that got cut because you, you know, I'll say another thing, the filmmakers don't be married to a scene that if it's unnecessary, that's what I found. I mean, there was a couple of scenes where that got cut straight up that I thought worked on the script and they didn't work, they, they were just
unnecessary and they kind of made the film drag a bit. It's like, oh, in the script, I'm like, oh, well, this kind of shows his alienation and like, it's an extra bit of his character.
Eric, Ben
But then watching it's like, oh, it's kind of unnecessary, you know, we've already got that and then you're saving money, the more you cut in the script, right? So I wish I got the script but, you know, like, shoot it, if you think it's gonna be good for sure, there's certain elements of that, that you have to do.
Ben
You're just gonna have to do and find out in post.
Eric
Yeah. But yeah, but don't be married with because like I wrote it and like, oh, I love this. I love the way this monologue sounds and like, yeah, it could be a good monologue. But does it serve the story? Does it is it necessary could you do without it? And I, there was, I think three specific scenes in thirst that I remember watching. I was, and I was like, you know what? I love this on paper and it's good. It's well acted, but it's just, it's not necessary.
Eric, Ben
It doesn't play sometimes you got to kill some of your babies.
Eric
Yeah, you just got, you have to. so if you want to go like to, we were talking about people like how to make a film, I guess another part of it, you know, you write the, with the budget in mind, you have to do a lot of math, you know, you have to figure out and then I guess it's finding the money. I was fortunate. And then I had enough of a budget that I was going to fund it myself.
Not everyone can and I, I can't do that again, you know, I, I don't have the means to do it again. But yeah, that's another thing to find and I, I, that to find that money, I don't know how to do that, you know, I'm gonna find out for the next movie. which is again, I think you have to go meet people, send your scripts everywhere and anywhere. But I think, I think for first time filmmakers, even second time film filmmakers, which I will be budget is key, like as much as I would love to make a $5
million movie. It's just, is it possible maybe, but probably not, it's totally possible. Well, not now, I don't think it's possible, but I think it's unlikely, I think more realistic. So that's why I wrote this next film, Collapse with like a $250,000 budget in mind. Like, and theoretically it could be done for 100 which you say like, well, the idea is to get like a bigger name for the lead.
Which, and you can't get in your first micro budget feature, but like for your second one, hopefully you can't, I'll, we'll come back in a, in a year's time and find out if we've got that lead for the second feature, we'll see. Nice. Yeah, we'll see how it goes.
Ben
Well, cool. Yeah. So so what's next?
Eric
Yeah, just finishing this script that I'm working on outpost. That's I'm gonna go home and, and do that today. I won't finish it today. II, I think I'll have a first draft by the end of next week or no, probably early next week and then I have a producer that's hope, hopefully gonna be he hasn't fully committed yet. But talking about he's going to Berlin Film Festival next month and kind of pitching the script for Collapse to again, you gotta find that money to shoot it in the fall.
And then my band will be back on the road in the summer. But the, the, I'm, I'm really happy about these next couple of months. It's the first time in not including like 2020 like the pandemic. But because 2020 when the band kind of came, became active again. But from like 2014 to 20 like to the beginning of 2020 I was pretty busy with the band now that said that there was time to like, always write and do that. But I'm kind of home constantly for the first time, for a couple of months, for
the first time. Not yet, not including 2020 because everyone was home then. But yeah, it's exciting. So I get to like, really, right. And I'm, I'm already creating score ideas for Collapse for the film. That's so writing, the movie is very, was very rewarding, directing it and you know, producing, it was also like fulfilling and I was very happy with that. But man, scoring the movie is so much fun. That's the most fun.
Ben
It's cool too that you get to do that. I mean, I, I wanted to ask you a little bit about like, you know, your music career and things like that. So maybe you can tie in scoring the film and how it's gratified. You know, like you obviously have played Lollapalooza. You've done all kinds of world tours with, with Black Pistol Fire. How, how have you been able to marry sort of your music and film making abilities?
Eric
So, I started a drum, I'm a drummer. But then, several years ago I started playing the sense more and like doing more keyboard stuff in the band. And then by that, you know, experimenting with sounds and tones and writing songs, writing a lot of songs that did not necessarily fit Black Pistol Fire. But I found my forte was not necessarily musically vocals and lyrics, not necessarily my strong suit, but I always liked composing.
So doing the music like, oh, like I can come up with like a cool groove or beat or something. And so I started making Electron making electronic music as well. Kind of weird daft punky kind of stuff. So when it came to score the, the films, I'm like, oh, I can, I can do this. It's like, there's a lot of ways you can score a film. Like some films are better with like an acoustic guitar and like, it depends on the vibe, but for a lot of what I'm doing now, which is thriller, horror things in that
realm. You know, you want soundscapes and then for, for me and Thirst, it was like, I wanted the movie to be, to be anxiety inducing. I wanted to kind of like make people uncomfortable and anxious. And so I wanted to score to reflect that. So there's a lot of, for me, it was very rewarding and that there was, it's musical expression without the confines of a song structure.
So you can write the music specifically what you're seeing and like, make it work. It doesn't have to make sense really, you know. So for me, that was very fun and more rewarding and freeing in a lot of ways, not having to worry about like, ok, the four beats chorus, or 44 bars of chorus and then like 12 bars a verse or whatever or whatever it is and like things to like piece together.
It can kind of just be, it can be whatever in film as long as it serves the visual. Well, so for me in thirst, I knew I wanted to be like anxious and weird. So it was a lot of odd time signatures. So there's a lot of 34, there's a lot of 68, there's 78, just things that are a little jarring and not as pleasing if, you know, for music you're 44 would be like, da, da
Eric, Ben
da, you know, like a simple, a simple groove where down to nine be rude on where, you know, 347868, things like that.
Eric
They're just odd and they don't fit that exact groove. So it's, it's, it can be a groove but then it's a, it just kind of jars you a bit like, oh it doesn't start or stop where you expect it to. So that's kind of what I was going after with Thirst. In addition, you know, there's some creepy scenes where you have like weird scent and like Droney. Droney is dry a word dry droning droning sense.
You know, you want creepy stuff but yeah, a lot of anxiety inducing a and like weird sounds. So and that's just the most fun because you're, I do do, I did, I did do a a lot of it ahead of time. At least the ideas, some of that I scored a picture I actually played while watching the film. But it was, yeah, so some of it was things that I already little pieces that I already created and like pasting and like kind of like lining it up appropriately and then sometimes, oh here's an idea.
It's cool, but I have to tweak it for this specific scene. So yeah, just kind of, it's good to have a whole for the, for the music of a film if you want, if you want to compose and you know what the film is gonna be? Just have a, just a pot of ideas, you know, just like a whole just to choose from, even if they aren't done.
Eric, Ben
Like, oh, these are things that, which is cauldron of ideas.
Ben
Yes.
Eric
Yes. The, the brew, the brew, was it? Miles Davis had bitches brew. Remember that album?
Ben
There's bitches brew. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric
Big jazz album.
Ben
Yeah, that's great, man. So, have you showed your band any of the stuff you made for your Thirst?
Eric
No, no, Kevin has not, has not seen it.
Eric, Ben
I'm kind of, I'm kind of keeping it well, you haven't seen it, you know, I need to watch it.
Eric
I can send you a link or do you want us? Here's my thing though, Ben. See you in the theater. I would love you to see in the theater or, you know, I, I had my one side family and friends screening of Thirst Over Christmas Break. I rent a very small theater in Toronto. an old theater, actually a single theater and I had like 40 people come like my, my family and then a couple of friends, my, my one cousin who is a big, like watches way more movies than I do a big film buff and he couldn't come.
And I said, OK, I'll send you, I'll make a link and I'll send you a link, but you have to promise me you cannot watch this on a laptop. You have to be able to put it on a TV, at the very least. And it's got to be full sound.
Eric, Ben
You can promise me that I can, I can promise you that.
Ben
And then what I will say is I want to, I need to have, I need to eventually have a party where we just screen movies that we've made as. So, let me, let me just work on that and I'll send you an invite to that and we'll come to that. Of course, you're always invited. You're always invited.
Eric
Can I come, Ben? I know I got, I got like a British accent. Then can I come to your party?
Ben
But you, so you're not British. So you're Canadian.
Eric
I'm Canadian. Yes. No, I'm Canadian and Canadian.
Ben
But you call yourself a little Texan. Ay.
Eric
My, my wife's famous. Yeah, I've been with a lovely gal from Texas for about a decade now and I am certain charm to it, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And her family is the very Texan family, the most Texan family of all time. So, no, but I am, I am Canadian born and raised. I still am. I'll probably, I mean, I will always be a Canadian citizen and I will always be Canadian.
But my, my, my mom's side of the family is actually Ukrainian. My grandparents were from Ukraine and my dad's side is Welsh and Scottish. So I tell this to people because it's different. You, I think you, you, you are, an exception of the case. But in, in, because your mom is French. French. Yeah. So, in, in Toronto, at least I shouldn't speak for all of Canada. I know in Toronto it's kind of rare to, I don't think I have many of my friends, like everyone's got, at least, at least a
grandparent or two. That's an immigrant. You know, it's just kind of common where I know it's less of that down here. Like my, my wife and a bunch of her friends are like, you know, how many generations deep American, it's just different. You know, Toronto is a large influx of immigration in the ninth, in the 20th century. So, yeah, I'm half Ukrainian quarter, Welsh quarter Scottish, if you go by ancestry, but 100% Canadian. Nice.
Ben
Yeah, that's great. You know, and it was great working with a Canadian director because I've worked with a lot of directors and the Canadian variety are very compassionate and empathetic on set.
Eric
Oh yeah, man. Like yeah, you wanna be cool, be cool, man, especially. So I just finished reading this book by oh my God. I put the guy's name. Kyle Kyle Cous cous. I think I'm in a butcher. He was he directed a lot of episodes like the pilot of the office and everything and there's a lot you go, it's a book about directing.
You should read it. You'd like it, it's really good because he's like, oh, there's a lot of books about screenwriting but not a lot about directing. oh, he also did like, he's just not that into you. He directed it. Sister of the Traveling Pants. Like he's like kind of in the comedy realm.
Ben
You give me that recommendation. I will say if you have you read directing actors that I should read that one. It's a great one he has. Well, I mean, not that you need it but it's a great book for everyone to read.
Eric
It's always good to learn. I was thinking about taking an acting class just to like be a terrible actor but like, just to learn like their process more and like kind of how they go through things and like, yeah, I think it would be good to know, like, not, not necessarily that I would do that, but to know anyway, this, this book I read, he talked about some directors like in the past like to have like tyrannical sets, you know, and
like make people uncomfortable, like, oh, they'll make the film better if everyone's on edge and everyone's uncomfort, I've never, I don't know any of that experience.
Eric, Ben
I don't know if you have not necessarily but like Kubrick doing like the 148 takes of a scene or something.
Eric
I think that is a big one for that. And then also like some that just like, yell at people and like, yeah, I just couldn't do that. That'd be weird.
Ben
No, I mean, I, you know, I will say so, I'm, I was born and raised in Austin and I've seen the film scene in the past five years grow and explode and there's tons of people from New York, from L A and one of the jobs that I feel that I have is somebody who owns a production company is to hold down this vibe of, hey, we don't yell at our pas, we don't yell at people on set. We treat everybody with kindness and respect, you know, and we make everybody feel important because they are.
Eric
Absolutely. And, and, and this book also says, so like, learn, I mean, we had a small crew. So obviously, I was gonna know everyone, you know. And but I, I made a point to, that's just, this is just me. That's how I like, I kind of like to learn about people like how they are like, what's their, what's their story? No, like everyone has a story, you know, like, like the podcast.
But no, everyone's a valuable member and, and they're all helping you kind of follow your, your your vision and, and they're, they're there to be a part of it too. So just be cool to them man and like, learn everyone's name and like, hang out with everyone. Get to know them a bit if you can. Why not? Yeah.
Ben
Well, cool, man, let's wrap it up a little bit here.
Eric, Ben
I just wanna, let's condense this into a, that wasn't me, Ben, I swear.
Ben
Wow. So, if you turn on do not disturb. Well, it's on, I don't know what to tell you. Oh, it was ok. I haven't had my phone on, it's on, do not disturb, you know what, I'm gonna have to spend a whole day figuring out how to use my computer. I think so. But you gotta do it though. Yeah, exactly. Right. So, ok, so wrapping it up, let's, let's just condense.
I think what I really want to know is if, you know, there's gonna be a lot of probably first time filmmakers here listening into this and want to know, you know, how do I start making films? You know? So you didn't go to film school? You didn't know you didn't have some Hollywood connection in your family.
Eric
So, gave me any money.
Ben
No one gave you any money, no one. No, I mean, they just said, you know, good luck. Hope you make it.
Eric, Ben
So, so if you could just condense your advice for filmmakers, find cool people.
Eric
So I, my first step as far as make, making a film was the very first short that I made. Again. We'll take the scripts aside. I are kind of gone about like my screenwriting. But as far as making the first short and like making a film, my first step was I need someone that knows things. And that was Josh. I was fortunate in that we have mutual best friends, Josh and I, Katie Kelsey again.
I met Josh, I think I met Josh once before at a par Josh and Britt and his wife. I met them once before at a party and we had a good time. We had a good conversation. And then I knew he worked in film. I think he did. I knew vaguely that he, he like was director of photography and things like that. So I, I'm like, I need someone that will want to like, shoot something with me.
So I reached out to, again, our friend call him like, hey, can I have Josh's contact? And I reached out to Josh and Josh was gracious and, and a great dude and he was interested and if it wasn't even him, that was the one I was like, I was gonna ask him to like, point me in the right direction and you know, you anyone that's like a pretty good person if they weren't available, like, hey, I can't do it, but here's maybe someone that could help.
So he was my, he was like kind of like the, the catalyst and that like he, I'm like, OK, well, for this short, I want to shoot this thing who do we need? What do we need? Because I had no idea that like, what kind of crew was necessary and he was like, ok, probably a gaffer and a grip and a sound. I'm like, ok, cool. And then he had people that he recommended like you.
and so, yeah, find one person that can be your little, what's the word I'm looking for your, you're in, I guess, into the, to the realm of the crew. And you can also find those things online. There's a lot of, I mean, there's so many resources online to, like, look at, like, what do you need for a film crew?
Ben
But, like, it's definitely best if you have somebody who works in the industry and knows, you know, sort of some people, even if they're just, you know, they just, they know a handful of crew that are cool and down to work.
Eric
Exactly. And that's, the thing is like having cool people that definitely helps. So, yeah, the, the find, find someone, if you, if you, if you were like me and literally knew nothing about how to put something together, find someone that does some, find someone that knows more than you because there's a lot of them and hopefully if you're lucky, like me, it's a, it was a friend of a friend who becomes your friend.
and if not, I mean, just, like, reach out to people, there's got to be someone nice. That's how you start. That's great. And then figure it out as you go because, I mean, I still haven't fully figured it out but, you know, I, I have more of an understanding than I did, obviously. Yeah.
Ben
Right.
Eric, Ben
And that willingness to, you know, to, to be flexible and to learn it, you gotta be flexible, you gotta be willing to learn, you gotta put you again, you gotta put yourself out there.
Eric
I think a big thing I, I'd say to all filmmakers, this is maybe the biggest advice, get ready for rejection. It's gonna, you in entertainment. I know like the band experienced that for years before we had any success. You have to have a thick skin and it don't take anything personally. You're gonna be rejected thousands of times whether it's for someone like buying your script or like some crew member you wanna work with or an actor that you want to cast or
funding or then when you have the film made, you want to send it like you're just gonna be prepared for rejection. And you have to be able to like, just accept it and work through it.
Ben
I mean, yeah, trust me, I've been sending emails to nick cage to be in my my, my movie, I can hook you up. Ok? Yeah, I've been sending him my emails every day in letters. I've been showing up to his house, right.
Eric
Now I love it. Hey, Nick. Respond to Ben immediately. Dick. I wouldn't.
Ben
Yeah. No. Yeah, I don't, I don't either and I haven't been emailing him just for the record. I have not been emailing Nick Cage. Yeah, definitely. I mean, so, well, I mean, you know, I, I will say it was a, it was great to work with you Eric and, yeah, and, you know, hopefully in the future we'll work together again. And, you know, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. I think a lot of the stuff you said was super insightful.
Eric
I hope I didn't ramble. I hope it was concise. If you have any more questions, you can like, let's do proper mail, let's be pen pals, you know, send it in the mail.
Ben
Yeah, that sounds great.
Eric, Ben
You know, and I'll, I'll definitely have you back on and, you know, in some time when Thirst has been bought and sold and millions and millions of people have seen it and all that stuff.
Ben
Yeah, I'm excited to, to follow up in a while and just see where everything, where everything goes. Well, there you have it, folks that was Eric Owen talking about his movie Thirst. Thanks so much for tuning into the, what's your story podcast again? I'm your host, Ben Root. You're listening to, what's your story by two perf productions.
If you want to check out more by two perf productions, you can check out our website at www 0.2 perf dot us. You can listen to all our podcasts there, see our work and check out all the cool things we're up to. Thanks again for tuning into the, what's your story podcast? Make sure to stay tuned for the next episode and we'll see you later.
